THE PASTOR – A CHAT BETWEEN TWO MEN

TWO MEN ARE CATCHING UP ONE MORNING...

Mark: “So what's this I hear about you having a home church or something. Is that right?”
Jeff: “Yeah, for a few years now.”

Mark: (thinking) “Who’s the pastor?”
Jeff: “How do you mean?”
Mark: “You know, the pastor. The leader of the church?”
Jeff: “Well, according to the scriptures, churches aren’t led by a pastor. They’re overseen by elders. Pastors serve the church along with teachers, prophets, evangelists, workers of miracles, and others.”
Mark: “Oh really?” (chuckling) “How does that work?”
Jeff: “Most people view the church as an organization with a corporate structure. But the Bible doesn’t say that anywhere. The church isn’t a business; it’s a family under the headship of Christ.”

Mark: “No pastor, huh? So you don’t believe in submission to authority?
Jeff: “Like obeying them that hath the rule over you?”
Mark: “Exactly like that. Biblical order and structure.”
Jeff: (Sipping coffee) “Okay, since we’re using the Bible for church structure - as we should - where does it say that we should submit to a pastor?
Mark: “I don’t know the verse off hand, but it’s in there.”
Jeff: “When you find it, share it with me, and we’ll discuss it then. Is that fair?”
Mark: “Fair.”

Jeff: “Ephesians chapter four is the only place in the entire New Testament that mentions the word pastors. Only once and only in the plural. Never in the singular.
Mark: "That doesn't sound right..."
Jeff: "Look it up. Pastors are just one of the many spiritual gifts given to the church listed in Rom 12, 1 Cor 12, and Eph 4. Every member of the body of Christ is gifted in some way to edify and perfect the church - not just pastors."
​
Mark: “Even if that's right, it doesn’t explain structure and submission.”
Jeff: “Now we’re talking about elders. Gifts of the Spirit are different from eldership, nor is the office of an elder gift-specific. Paul spelled out the qualifications for elders to Timothy and Titus, and no gifts are mentioned in those qualifications. It’s more about having the right heart, temperament, order in the home, and a good reputation inside and outside of the church.”
"When the Bible speaks of obeying them that rule over you, it’s very similar to our natural families. Do you have kids?"
Mark: “Two boys and a girl. All teenagers.”
Jeff: “Do you have rules for them to follow?”
Mark: “Yep.”
Jeff: “Are they going to live with you forever?”
Mark: “Oh no! We’re counting down the days till they’re out of the house and on their own.”
Jeff: “When they leave the house, will they still have to obey you like they did when they were little?”
Mark: “No.”
Jeff: “Why not?”
Mark: “Because they’re grown up.”
Jeff: “Exactly. And it’s the same in the church. Obeying those that rule over you is not forever but for a time and season or should be. Everyone's growth is different. It could be a few months to a few years, depending on a person’s growth. Jesus taught his disciples for about three years and then turned them loose. That’s about how long Paul was at Ephesus before moving on."
"Peter wrote that the younger should be submitted to the elder till they become strong, mature saints who are able to teach others and use their spiritual gifts to edify the church. Then that submission to those over them will change to those among them. We’re all supposed to be subject to one another."
Mark: “Mmmm. I’m not sure I buy all this, but you’ve given me some things to think about. And I’m still gonna look for that verse about submitting to the pastor.”
Jeff: “Okay, keep me posted on that.”